Thank you both for your comments, they helped me refine my thoughts on this.

Every human interaction or transaction is potentially motivated or biased by objectification on some level. I think sexual interactions are especially prone to objectification. We can't read each other's true thoughts and therefore as a self-defense mechanism, we must assume the potential of being objectified. Our tolerance for objectification may vary from one situation or encounter to the next. And perhaps the mutuality and ubiquity of objectification influence our individual tolerance. We can be tolerant while we generally prefer the objectification remain covert or at least below a certain threshold. Our tolerance represents consent (or ignorance) and when objectification becomes intolerable, we exercise our veto.

I think the immorality of objectification comes mostly from selfish disrespect for others and the potential for abuse. When the power dynamic of the individuals involved is noticeably imbalanced, objectification strongly disadvantages the weaker. Most of our morality rules aim to protect the weak from corrupt exploitation by the strong.

Wow, that paints an ugly picture of our swinging behaviors. And if we were to stop right there, it would likely constitute sufficient grounds to label swinging as an intolerably immoral behavior for a civilized society. Every cloud has a silver lining and swinging is not necessarily as evil as the earlier paragraphs may suggest - but it still remains an interestingly precarious balance.

I think the obverse of objectification is genuine respect and appreciation. As an example, I can have greater respect for someone who takes care of their body by maintaining themselves reasonably lean and functionally physically fit. I can have less respect someone who is heavier than generally considered healthy and too weak to work up a good sweat. When I approach someone at a sex party, it is more likely I'll choose someone I have higher respect for (and that's certainly not limited to physical appearance). We enjoy the thought of sharing our sexuality with someone fostered by a mood of mutual respect and appreciation (with an allowance for trivial objectification). When the encounter comes to its natural closure, everyone feels respected and appreciated.

I believe this is important because it's one of the sources of the magical synergy we observe as a benefit of swinging. Perhaps, that's a separate blog.

Our motivations are the key. When we're motivated to generously share the carnal pleasures of mutually respectful sexual interaction, we derive a benefit for ourselves, our playmates, and for society in general. Otherwise, our nefariously selfish motivations may or may not be exposed during any particular encounter but a more transparent pattern develops over repeated exposures and we experience a long-term loss for ourselves and a negative influence for society.

I agree that looking for things like BBC or BBW or very specific attributes does objectify things. What about specifically looking for girl/girl only play. A very fit couple looking for the same?

But at the very core of swinging, isn't it about what I or We want? Aren't we allowed to choose what we like? We're not looking for a life partner (well perhaps some are); we are not looking for even a long term relationship. (though if a friendship comes out of the experience, bonus!)

We are not looking to fulfill our playmate's desires at the expense of of our own. And we are not looking to fulfill our needs to the detriment of our playmates. We both enjoy the mental and physical interactions with out playmates.

I really dig chicks with a fishing mentality, although catch and release is prefered....There is something to be said for sautéed Mahi-Mahi

OK, now that Andy Griffith tune is itching my brain, which has nothing to do with anything at the moment, but still...

Sharing the excitement of the nibbles

yep, nibbles are cool, but it's the lickles that really count

Oooh! Nibbles are good. Thumbs up!

Interesting thought. Mutual objectification is harmless, I suppose, until it's not. I don't think objectification in and of itself is immoral; however, certainly it can have a negative impact and should be checked when it reaches that level.

I've experienced the process of being promoted from sexual object to treasured lover, then demoted to friend with benefits (the equivalent of "familiar sexual object"). Objectification, under those circumstances, can be painful. You make the veto sound like such a powerful and classy response, lol. But I personalize...

Thanks for the mental exercise

Insightful as always.

Well said, Socolais, and agreed.

One of the reasons I was questioning the correlation between the consensus of the board and successful domestic swingers is that I suspect The Board has "some" influence on the general population of swingers - especially the novices and wannabes. I believe this is the largest and most mature discussion forum concerning responsible non-monogamy. The volume of dialog becomes an easy target for google searches in pursuit of answers sexual. Julie is the gorilla of her domain (aint that a sexy thought).

I read the threads in the forum or at least the subject line and I think it is very interesting that we've become shade-tree marriage counselors. Complete strangers spill their guts about their most intimate relationship troubles. They observe that we must have some answers because we've already gone beyond the relationship hurdles they are having difficulty with. It is interesting to watch the reaction of the poster when the advice given is not what they were hoping for. So many of them seem to want a "moral license" to go out and have sex with whomever they may choose without regard for undesirable consequences. It's almost as if they're looking for some kind of justifiable loophole in the morality code that permits them to find some nontraditional path to their sexual fulfillment - without the "work" of fixing their current troubles. Others, see the wisdom in the guidance and their relationship benefits from the ideas we share with them - either in the form of direct dialog or through the outstanding archive of relevant threads.

I believe some guests understand the logic we describe and use their newfound knowledge to adjust their perspective and perhaps their internal moral compass in a way they are likely to find a slightly more rewarding existence through a balanced and compassionate sexual interaction with others. So yes, I think the board is a positive influence on general sexual morality and also, relationship maturity.

Altruistic compassion for others, is a fundamental building block of most morality codes. I think we practice what we preach.

Lol, I don't know if I could've waited that long to find out whether all my hard work had been noticed.

Glad to hear she approved.

=)

We wish we could have a house party and invite several couples. However we live in an RV and it would be too small to have a "house party".

That being said we really enjoyed reading your blog.

We quote:I truly believe The Swingers Board is a reliable barometer of the general state of swinging - especially in the U.S.

==========================
We are newer members of the Board and concur completely.
Thanks for and interesting read.

Thanks for the confirming data point. I truly believe The Swingers Board is a reliable barometer of the general state of swinging - especially in the U.S.

I think regaining favor of the group after rejection is not impossible, just an up-hill battle (once bitten, twice cautious). That goes well with the "shining metaphor" of the trailer park - if we're not comfortable with our neighbors, it's fairly easy to relocate (avoid THAT clique).

Good ole Jack, "You want the truth?! You can't HANDLE the truth!!"

Is it wrong that I heard Jack Nicholson's voice when I read, "Damn, I love a good metaphor"?

Seems also to match those which are evident in southwestern Pennsylvania as well.

Even those who create drama can eventually return to the collective grace of the "community".

Why thank ya' Darlin.

=)

Man, we definitely got it made!!! This is the best trailer park this side of the Mississippi. And Sweet, I'll bet that's some scrumptious T

Do you know how many times when I hear your thoughts, if we were sittin in lawn chairs next to the pool, I would take a sip of what ever I was drinking, lean your way and say "man, we got it made"

fun

Well put, my friend. And I'll bring the sweet tea.

I could no longer hold off. This evening, JoAnn and I were in the kitchen and I asked her, "Do you see anything different?" She looked puzzled and concerned, "What?" I pointed up. "Michael, oh, Michael! I can't believe I didn't see that." The judgment is, apparently, that I did a good job.

I thought women were supposed to have a built-in ability for seeing things that were out-of-place. Maybe this inane talent is limited to "bad stuff".

Yes, I did fix the plumbing problem before closing up the ceiling. I'm proud of that too. It sort of looked to me as if the tin-lead solder had turned into lead-sulfate (white color) where the two sections of drain pipe were joined. So I heated the pipe with a Benzomatic torch until I was fairly confident that I have boiled off all of the water inside and brushed some solder flux onto the outside. The already existing solder flowed into the leaky area and sealed it. Should be good for another thirty years or so.